with the heat index. one more, we're six hours behind. in the winter, your competition is jimmy fallon. >> we got our late-night show, guys. we got a late-night show. we've been dreaming -- at least in hawaii. more details ahead. i continue to push congressional leaders for the largest possible deal and there's going to be resistance. there is frankly resistance on my side to do anything on entitlements. there is strong resistance on the republican side to do anything on revenues. but each side takes a max mallist position, if each side

wants 100% what it's -- ideological predispositions are, then we can't get anything done. i'm happy to consider all options, all alternatives that they're looking at. but things that i will not consider are a 30-day or a 60-day or a 90-day or a 180-day temporary stop-gap resolution to this problem. this is the united states of america. and if we don't manage our affairs in three-month increments, we don't risk u.s. default on our obligations because we can't put politics aside. >> hey, welcome to "morning joe". >> good morning, everybody. >> boy, it's like -- >> you found some breeze across

america. >> sun dress weather. >> by the way, you're wearing one of those right now. >> what do you think? >> glad i took the shrooms this morning. i'm having a good time. >> i like it a lot. >> i'm for it. >> i'm for it too. >> it's lilly. i love it. >> maybe. >> maybe i should -- >> it looks good. >> msnbc contributor mike is here. >> he stayed up late last night. he's got night goggles now. >> the political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, harold ford jr. >> harold ford. >> good knowing you. >> great --

>> second base won last night. >> he can swing the bat. >> his father was throwing the pitches, the father who formerly pitched for the houston astros. >> he wasn't throwing to ortiz. he didn't get nearly as many. >> what is this? >> they have a -- >> exactly. >> but the splitter. >> is it outside. >> unbelievable. >> throwing at him, actually, for the past couple of weeks now. >> okay. >> so the president comes in and i love -- i love that quote where he said we've got to talk about entitlements, we've got to talk about everything, taxes, etc., etc. and i think that's fake. i really do. i -- the second part is he says he's not going to extend, make any extensions whatsoever and he's not going to let politics get in the way of the process. this process is, of course, shaped by and framed by

politics. it is all about politics. but it seems like if -- if the president's talking this way and if republicans can get enough time to do a republican tax reform, so you're not raising the rates but you're expanding it out to make sure that the warren buffets of the world don't pay 14% in taxes and corporations pay 0%, and you raise more, you can have us a big deal here. >> they're still drawing lines in the sand that seem insurmountable with weeks to go before the august 2 deadline, congressional leaders are heading back to the white house today for yet another meeting to reach a deal on raising the country's debt ceiling. officials familiar with the negotiations say majority leader eric cantor dominated yesterday's meeting. cantor laid out what was agreed upon in the deficit reduction talks led by vice president biden, specifically $2 trillion in cuts in the next decade. the figure includes $1 trillion

in discretionary spending. $200 billion in medicare and medicaid. and $200 billion to $300 billion on saved interest in the debt. >> so the military -- the military, i guess, comes in in the mandatory discretionary spending. >> military. >> sources familiar with the talks add that after the presentation president obama said the two sides might be able to reach consensus on roughly $1 pp 7 trillion. but there are still some issues to resolve. at one point in the meeting, republicans called tax increases bad for jobs. the officials say vice president biden exclaimed, come on, man, let's get real. >> oh come on, man! >> well, i don't blame him. the gop's resistance is not economic, it's ideological. and you know what? is he not right? >> if you ear a democrat. if you're a liberal democrat, yeah, you think he's right. >> listen to what the president said. he's definitely taking risks.

>> oh, yeah. >> that's good for him politically. >> and these guys are just -- with the talks in limbo, president obama held a news conference before yesterday's meeting. they're being difficult. >> who's that? >> the republicans. they're being difficult. >> are they? >> yes. >> saying he's still pushing for the largest deal possible, but the president made it clear he would veto any short-term fix, declaring, quote, we will get this done by august 2. >> i will not sign a 30-day or a 60-day or a 90-day extension. that is just not an acceptable approach. it's not going to get easier, it's going to get harder. so, we might as well do it now. pull off the band aid. eat our peas. now's the time to do it. if not now, when? step up, let's do it. i'm prepared to take on

significant heat from my party to get something done. and i expect the other side should be the same thing. >> can we get alex the boehner response? he understands the deal requires sacrifice. but i don't get this part. he said it takes two to tango. let's listen. >> i think the fundamental questions are this -- can you control government spending without fundamentally reforming entitlements? i think the answer is no. do you need to raise taxes in order to get control of spending? i think the answer is no. do you want to see an increase in government revenues? let's grow the economy and create jobs, broaden the tax base, and lower rates. >> harold ford, what do you think? >> i think the president has shown the kind of leadership that you've been espousing on the show for sometime. cutting entitlements, asking for compromise, and saying that i'm

standing in front of my own party and take tremendous heat, now you eve been the champion of this now for months, if not since the presidency started. >> years. >> and i'm particularly thinking about this presidency. i think it is it height in so many ways of irresponsibility on the part of my friends eric cantor and john boehner to not only step from the plate but to go before their caucus and make the case that this kong would be the only congress in the history of america's congresses to be able to go home and legitimately say, we cut medicare, social security, and medicaid and we've increased revenue to the federal government by raising -- or should i say by decreasing spending by $3 and raising taxes by less than $1 and we cut $4 trillion in budget spending in the next ten years. to not do that is -- >> on paper. >> in concept -- >> yeah, that's what the

republicans have said as well. >> you said three-to-one, this weekend, which the three-to-one ratio, you shut down the loopholes amend you go after the massive increases in entitlement programs and defense spending and war spending and it's a three-to-one ratio and you have closing loopholes? man, that seems like a great deal. >> but your party -- >> let me just say it. "the new york times" today said it's not even a two-to-one ratio right now. that's what worries me. the president said we're going to get it done by august 2. i'm worried that suddenly three-to-one becomes two-to-one, becomes one-to-one, all of the gimmicks and the tricks that we had in the government shutdown that was supposed to save $38 billion and it cost us $7. >> that's not are we are. they're not talking discussing tax increases not this year or next year. one of the most compelling moments he said yesterday is the only tax we'll raise next year is repealing the payroll tax that's been cut this year by two

points for every american. two, no taxes would go up on president obama's plan until after 2012 and the only people affected by it are in the top earnings. i hope they raise it to $500,000 a person and $1 million a couple. >> what's interesting. the democrats -- the leaders of the house, people like nancy pelosi saying, no, we're not going to go there with entitlement programs, being a bit more difficult. on the republican side, it's the rank and file. it's the new members that said, we're not going to raise taxes if you send us to washington that are doing the deal. now john boehner right now is just sort of sitting out there. he's not able to do the deal that he wans to do. >> it appears within the last ten days, speaker boehner has been put in a box by eric cantor. he's maneuvered the speaker from being a guy who looks as if they're moving across the table to the president of the united

states to a guy who yesterday saying he's afraid of his base. the whole thing is similar mantices, i think. you have republicans, democrats put medicare and social security on the table. the president put those on the table. unherd of. >> what does that mean in the specifics. again, i salute the president. i'm telling you as a republican, i'm thinking, is he saying that and he gets his tax increases which democrats always want. >> the private package, the bush tax cuts, making it permanent for the middle class. >> everyone but the top 1%. >> yeah, except for the top 1%. >> and the -- that's a tax hike. that's a tax hike. we're not going to go along with that. >> i'm curious, why do you -- why don't you get rid of all of the tax cuts for everybody. >> because we need the money. we need the revenue stream. we have to widen the revenue stream.

i don't know what they're thinking about in washington. we need to widen the revenue stream. we're doing so much. we have to fight in three wars. >> i'm saying, why not get rid of all of the tax cuts. >> repeal the tax cuts. >> by either or. they're so expensive. for everybody. >> that would be great. you think that could get done? >> your party will not support that. if they're unwilling to -- >> i'm playing devil's advocate. get rid of it just for the top. if we need the revenue, get rid of it for everybody. and you have nancy pelosi like a lot of democrats very concerned about the moves in entitlement, medicaid, medicare. >> talking about the republican problem not moving on taxes. here's the other side of the problem. nancy pelosi saying the same from yesterday, we continue to pose tax cuts on social security and medicare. the pillars of economic and health security should not be used as a piggy bank to subsidize tax cuts from the wealthy. we saw that from the president yesterday. he's talking republicans and

he's talking specifically to progressives. if we're making a deal, you have to come to the middle too. and that's why the line is if not now, when was so salient because so many people are thinking, if the government can't work for us at this moment, this moment of crisis, when do they do their thing. >> i love the president said, mikka. >> it was great. >> i wish the president would have said this in may. >> it was perfect. >> the question is what do we do now between today and what's today? july 12. >> a little bit of a chess game at this point. he's winning. >> he's winning the chess game by saying this. >> if he said it earlier, it would have felt like he came from -- >> if he said it earlier? >> it doesn't matter, he's saying. >> it does matter. hold on, you can't put the -- through a deal this big. if you're a democrat, you come to me and say, i tell you what, you close the loopholes and raise revenue, all right, then we'll take care of entitlements. i'll say, okay, that's great.

what does that mean? that right there is a month-long discussion. because the thing is, harold, washington, d.c. -- let me finish, washington, d.c. loves to spend. they're addicted to spending. ronald reagan's budgets were $600 billion. in 1990, it was $1.2 trillion. then it became $2 trillion. now it's $4 trillion. by the end of the decade, it will be $6 trillion a year. washington always spends. >> be uh you've been writing about this for years. we all know where the money is. it's been stated -- as it's been stated throughout the debate. why do guys rob the banks? that's where the money is. we know where the money is. the conversation is under way. we know it has to be done to make changes. you ask the questions, how can republicans trust obama he won't raise taxes and rescind the entitlements. >> because it goes both ways. >> nancy pelosi and progressives who i think are wrong on the issue criticized the deal because they don't believe we should make any cuts to the

entitlement program. >> getting back to the big point. >> that's the big point. >> he's there. >> he's there, the republicans are not. >> let's get back to the big point. it's july 12. it has to be done by august 2. >> and about the 22nd or 23rd to write it. you have to send it. >> see, that's the problem. and let me make my point here. the problem is, that when you rush into wars like iraq, when you rush into bailouts like t.a.r.p., you say here's a three-page piece of paper, give me $700 billion or the economy collapses? you know what happens? too big to fail gets bigger. and we've seen this. the tick-tock. it's like the government shutdown. they rush to a deal and suddenly at $38 billion -- you find out two months later becomes a $7 billion cost to taxpayers. so we're here now. and, again, i salute the president. all i'm saying is we have to extend it past august 2 if we're

going to know what we're passing. remember when we heard that the stimulus package was the most important package ever to save the economy? and no one on the show read the bill. >> no one read the bill. the frustration is on the show and in the country is why does it come to a moment of crisis? why do we not have foresight. why do we get to the point we need an extension. handle this the way people out in the world handles this? >> neither side trusts it other. >> study after study of social security, medicare, medicaid, taxes. this is unlike the stimulus which was a new conversation at the beginning of this term, we've had decades of study of all of the entitlement programs. the reality is, we have the bide up plan, we have paul ryan plan. you have the gang of six plan. you have the kid plan. there are a number of plans based on sound study. are the republican freshmen willing to give the leadership

and is that willing to stand up -- >> you can't transform 70 near programs in three weeks. again, i agree with you. we have to reform social security and medicare to save it. you don't do it with a gun to your head with the clock ticking. i want to underline again, boy, i salute the democratic president. i say democratic because he talked about entitlements. and that's what we were hoping he would do. i don't want to bury the lead here. >> okay, do not go on twitter today. >> that said, though, we're going to have to extend the time line if we're going to do this right. >> speaking of a gun to your head, i'm not in the suggestion business. but i don't think it would be a bad idea if the president of the united states has cantor and boehner and pelosi and the other members of the democratic knthe republicans elect in the fall, the democrats in the house and

senate elected to put social security on the table, invite them to the white house where leroy arthur petteri will be receiving the medal of honor because he had a gun to his head in afghanistan. he was asked to do something for his country, let's ask these people in washington to do something for their country. just get together and get something done. >> you know, there is huge news out of afghanistan this morning that we're going to get to as well as rupert murdoch and his media empire. what's going on with that. >> this is extending, by the way, to "the times" of london? >> yes, the big story. >> the other players, this is earth shattering. i thought the big thing -- i thought it was about one tabloid. whew. this is so serious. ahead this morning, we're going to bring in the ranking member of the budget committee, congressman chris van hollen. and oil tycoon t. boone pickens will be here. eugene robinson. >> by the way, on that story, i mean, they're not tapping the phones of the british prime

minister, but they're -- they're trying to get his records -- >> may be an institution that has rot on the the core. it is a big problem. >> medical records. >> bank accounts. >> after the break, politicos, top stories of the morning. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? well, mikka, beautiful weather out there if you love heat and humidity. this is summertime at its greatest or at its worst depending on how you look at it. conditions in the east coast. it will be the hottest and humid day of the summer all the way from texas all the way to the east coast. so how hot? it's 100 in louisville to start your morning. that's ridiculous. temperatures are very warm. these are the highs for today. it doesn't factor in the heat index. lit be 95 to 100 over a large area of the country. and as far as the heat index goes, 105 in dc. 10 in new york. the worst of it around memphis. it will feel like 115 degrees. take the proper safety precautions for the children and

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now powering the lg revolution. the all-star game is not what it used to be. a lot of big-name players will not go to arizona for the game. it's still going to be exciting. look at this. >> get ready for the mlb all-star game, we don't have a-rod, mariano rivero or david price. felix hernandez, cole hamels, and matt king won't be there. who will be on the field? the philly fanatic. the 80-year-old manager of the florida marlins, charlie sheen, and this lucky kansas city royals grounds keeper. the 2011 all-star game, it's

going to be sick. >> i love it. time now to take a look at the morning papers, the financial times, the world markets unturned. italy is coming under pressure to push the $40 billion austerity package through parliament without delay. german chancellor angela merkel said she spoke with italian prime minister silvio berlusconi over the phone to make budget cuts. >> amazon.com asks california voters to overturn a state law that requires all companies with operations or affiliates in the states to collect sales tax. amazon refused to collect the 7% sales tax since the law first took effect july 1 saying it's unconstitutional. new york times in the month before osama bin laden was killed, the cia ran a phony vaccination program in ibadabad, pack as a ruse to see if the family was running a compound

there. the doctor that helped the cia managed to gain access to the compound but never saw bin l laden. >> the debate over the debt limit to score points with voters, except for one. mitt romney. gop challengers have noticed and begun to accuse him of ducking the most vital issue of the campaign thus far. >> interesting. to politico. jim is with us. good morning, jim. >> how are you doing? >> doing already. >> you guys have a report that speaker john boehner may have to ditch some of the tea party freshmen in order to pass a deal on the debt limit. what's the latest there? >> the freshmen have tied themselveses so closely to a specific view on what to do with the debt ceiling vote. if you look at the numbers and how to get it through the house, you're going to need democrats, maybe 100 of them, and john

boehner is going to need a big chunk for republicans which means he'll lose lot of the tea party freshmen who have a stringent use of the matter than he does. we'll have a better picture where republicans will get together. everyone gets to air their views and we'll have a better portrait of what is the viewpoint of the republican conference on this deal, how big can it be. what other contingencies will they demand as part of the debt limit vote? >> jim, are there, say, 100 republicans in the house? that will agree to increasing revenue through closing loopholes? i mean, are there votes? at what point does the president realize that there either aren't enough republicans to deal with there, or only invite refuns down to the white house willing to close the loopholes to raise revenue? >> i think you hit on it earl inner in the program today. i think there are -- there's a block of republicans that would vote to get rid of some of the tax loopholes in exchange for tax reform now.

if you lower the corporate tax rate to 25%, 26% and you got rid of corporate tax in the loopholes they could buy in to that. but there is big -- thing that we want to reduce the size of government through two ways, spending and lower taxes. they don't want higher taxings. those are the two pillars at a brought them to power in the house. so they're making a principaled stand if you think about what they told voters they would do if elected. so they're making good on that promise. now, if you read the column that's in washington. if you listen to a lot of the pundits, the republicans are getting a all of the blame for not being reasonable. but that block of the republican party is doing what they said they were going to do in the election. >> he said it's interesting to see politicians savaged by the main stream media as hostage takers, members of hezbollah, and deranged cult leaders for

doing no more than keeping a campaign pledge. wasn't keeping ones word to voters seen as a positive political characteristic instead of a personal moral deficiency. keeping promises is a virtue. republicans who vote to raise income taxes in 2011 can be expected to sent home in 2012, period, end of political career. that's the big question. how can john boehner, whether the republicans move off the pledge they made now. they've dug in so deeply. >> some members, i signed this tax pledge. i would be able to go back to the voters and say, we're going to close some tax loopholes here. i want ge to pay more than zero dollars. i want general electric, the largest corporation in the world to pay more in taxes than you and your family. that work down -- that work down at the diaper. i want to make sure that warren buffet pays a higher tax rate than you. >> by the way, he agrees. >> that drives the truck. and warren buffet agrees. you can make that argument if

you want to. >> people are not. >> i will tell you this. the thing that's offensive to me, the main stream media, what i'm getting it to, they're calling the republicans saying they're not going to vote to increase tax rates, members of hezbollah and hostage takers and -- david brooks who i like. he doesn't usually insult democrats. so i like him. he doesn't usually call barack obama a fascist or a nazi or whatever republicans were calling him last year. but he's tough on republicans. he says they're immoral. and after the 10 elections, obama, remember, brought in the fact that he would not cut taxes for the richest americans after the election, he did. he ran on the notion that he would close guantanamo bay, but once he got the information, he didn't. they indicated they would try the top terrorist in new york. they didn't switch the position. why, it's the right thing to do. i hear you, some of the language is over the reality. i would put it on the table and

the republican freshmen are blocking it. at the end of the day, that's the reality. >> if the president kept his word, i wouldn't call him a member of the hezbollah. the main stream media has been so over the top in the past week. i want a deal to be done. i want revenue if we have to raise it through closing the loopholes, that's fine. but jim, the media needs to understand that it wasn't just republicans in washington that signed this pledge, it was republicans across america and is it not the case that the landslide in 2010 legislatively across america was one of the largest in american history? >> by 675 seats. it was. it was largely about the size of government. i will say the risk for republicans is that they've been winning the debate. the debate has been on their terms since the spring of 2009. and they run the risk by not showing any flexibility on closing loopholes or taxes at all and letting president obama swoop in at the last minute and position himself like you see in all of the analysis this morning

on our side of "the new york times," other places, he has the upper hand with independents because he's fighting for the big package. they were the ones that originally pushed for the big package. >> the president when he says everything is on the table. the president has the upper hand and the republicans are going to have to come up with a deal, or else i think he wins this. >> i -- >> jim vandehime, democrats are going to have to come to the table too. a slew of allegations in the british phone tapping now involving downing street and the royal family. big trouble for rupert murdoch. an exciting home run rally in arizona. a fan nearly falls out of the balcony a week after the fan in texas died. we'll show you what happened when we come back. [ p.a. announcer ] announcing america's favorite cereal

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36 past the hour. the surface surrounding rupert murdoch's media empire is growing today at another murdoch-own murdoch-owned paper. as stephanie goss reports, the scandal is threatening the chairman's other business ventures. >> reporter: rupert murdoch rushed to london hoping to minimize damage to the media empire. but it's looking more and more like there's little he can do. two allegations reported in the british press -- a claim that one of the officers protecting the royals sold a list of the family's phone numbers to "the news of the world." and a source close to gordon brown alleges that the sunday times, another murdoch paper, illegally pursued financial and medical information. anger at murdoch and resentment over the company's unchecked

political clout is boiling over. >> there's an element about all of this that is personal. gordon brown, for example, is very bitter that rupert murdoch didn't back him in the election. >> closing down "the news of the world," firing all of the employees, and apologizing was not enough to contain a scandal that's threatening news corp.'s business, threatening to derail the $14 billion deal to buy b sky b. the child who was abducted and murdered in 2002 whose cell phone was infiltrated by "the news of the world". >> i would say look how people feel about this. look how the country has reacted with revulsion to the revelations. do the sensible and decent thing and reconsider. >> reporter: there was a time when the politicians were afraid

to speak out against the tabloid press, relying too much on their political support and fearing retribution in the headlines, with murdoch on the ropes, the silence has been broken. >> that was stephanie goss reporting. a spokesperson for news corp. says this morning that the company will investigate the gordon brown allegations. "the new york times" is reporting that several high-ranking officers of scotland yard part of the original investigation in to news of the world were themselves victims of hacking. the allegations raising new questions about their handling of the case and they feared reprisals from the paper. the officers will appear at a hearing on that today. wow. so have we heard -- have we heard any response from murdock's people? about these are overblown, they're not true? because you know what, again we've seen before where things are swept up. >> absolutely. especially in london. >> it's a storm, the london

tabloids. and you sit there and go, i wonder if this is much to do about nothing down the road. but for the fact that i'm not really hearing a response from news corp. they're usually the most aggressive pitbulls. i mean, i always -- you look at their pr staff, they're remarkable. you sit there in wonderment. but they're completely silent. i'm thinking, wow, where there's smoke, there might be a lot of fire. >> they responded this morning to great britain. they responded by obviously the closure of the -- >> yeah, obviously. >> they responded. >> but now the times. >> they responded in great britain too. i think their fear -- and i think it's a legitimate fear, growing, increasing fear with each and every passing day does jump the pond. does this come here? >> does this come to america? >> yeah. >> they put out a statement this morning that was very unnews corp. like saying they're concerned about the allegations of gordon brown and they're

pursuing him and that's the game. so there's no -- these are outrageous, outlandish. >> "new york times" says the murdoch family is in a bunker according to one person close to the company. >> wow. >> hunker down. >> so that's the next question. i'm sure it's out on the websites. wanting to investigate american companyings. >> "new york post," fox news. >> yeah. >> sure they're -- yeah. >> let's get to sports. >> all right. let's do a little sports, shall we? no baseball last night. it's the all-star break, but they did have the home run derby ahead of tonight's all-star game. it came down to the red sox and the yankees. adrian gonzalez gets a start. that's the first home run of the night. we had nine in the first round. matt hally day from the national league, he knocked out five. a lot of people wandered how bautista would do. never got it going. four home runs in the derby. watch this play by the kid in the center field. diving grab, that was the play of the night.

>> might be phil griffith's kid. >> was he out there? >> he was out there on the field. >> amazing. >> so phil's out in phoenix, huh? >> yeah. >> for -- you know, where it's only 115 degrees. >> probably going to lay out in the sun. get a tan a little bit. >> the kid running around. >> here are the results. so go to the next round then, round two, robinson canoe getting some nice pitching from his dad. could there have been a better combination. your dad giving him meat balls. 20 in that round. >> oh, come on! >> adrian gonzalez. he bashes one to right field. he also had 20. this is about those two guys, prince fielder, this was the longest of the night, 474 feet. david ortiz each had nine home runs. not enough to advance. it sets the stage, red sox-yanks. adrian gonzalez of boston. watch the catch by the gay. he jumps in the pool after he makes it grab. nice move. >> what? >> cano was the man who put on

the show. crush this is one to tie it up. he's got a couple of outs to play with here. this one puts it away. robinson cano. >> wow, thanks, dad. >> your home run derby champion with 32 home runs. >> 32 total? >> total. >> amazing. >> 32 total. >> that's a lot. >> scary moment at the home run derby. look at this, prince fielder bashes one to right center field. the fan is going to almost go over the railing. thank goodness his friends grabbed him and pulled him back. he's okay. this all against the backdrop. on the same day, a funeral held for that texas rangers fan, the firefighter, who died when he fell over the railing reaching for a ball. >> you know, i couldn't -- i could not even look at that video. i can't. i could not. my wife told me, susan told me about it. i couldn't watch it. but you said you saw it and it looked like he'd slipped. the fact he wasn't doing anything reckless, it was a

slip. >> it was a toss ball by josh hamilton. he reached for it. it appeared -- i don't know what was on the pavement in front of him, he did slip. his 6-year-old son was sitting right next -- i can't even go there. >> no. >> josh hamilton was talking at the all-star game. he's grappling with this. he feels terrible. but they're telling him it's out of his hands. so we'll be right back with mikk a's opinion pages.

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before the break, colbert's superpack and collect unlimited donations. when i emerged from that crowd, my g-string was stuffed with

dollar bills and i wasn't even wearing a g-string when i started. so thanks to whoever donated that. and the media reaction has been overwhelming. with headlines like colbert's super pac pushes the limits of election law. colbert's super pac, good for government and good for us. and colbert is a super pac: labeouf over transformers. no surprise that's a joint headline. my super pac and the transformer series have a lot in common. i can also rake in millions of dollars for no apparent reason. >> 47 past the hour. that's a good point. time now -- i'm reading another one from the part that you read in politico, willie. which is joe's piece -- it's a point worth making again. >> oh, no, this is really good. >> you'll get hated on twitter by some people on the republican

base. >> don't log on today. >> i can handle a few things on twitter. don't worry about that. >> it's a meltdown. >> you wouldn't believe it. if obama moves forward with specific cuts on entitlement programs, republicans must work aggressively to close loopholes that favor billionaires and multinational corporations. i am quite confident even tea party members would be fine with more involvement with the 14% income tax rate and would be happy to see the world's largest corporation, ge, pay more in taxes than their own house hold. think about that. there is room for compromise. there's hope for a bargain, but launching hyperbolic attacks to stay true keeps them further away from a final deal. i just think -- i read this section or another piece of this is because i do think there are people on the far right who

think that more is being asked of them. in terms of their ideals. and that this makes perfect sense. there's nothing wrong with this. who would have a problem with this? i don't get it. >> my -- >> maybe it isn't the table to ask. >> there are problems with so many people. tax lawyers and lobbyists. this is a no-brainer in terms of a deal. they look mean and difficult and they're going to lose this. because it's a chess game. >> it's cut a deal. >> they need to do a deal on loopholes. do you think the members of the tea party want warren buffet to pay 15% in taxes? >> they err not making that

point. if they wanted to do that, they should have offered that earlier. i don't disagree with the large tax reforms package. republicans, as long as i've known them claimed the government is too large. how can you not take the deal and i happen to believe it's a times two, how can you not take a deal that allows you to cut government spending by $4 trillion in the next ten years unless you're being purely id logical. the language is hyperbolic and over the top. republican behavior is more over the top of the 100 freshmen. if they are serious, then come to the table and make a deal. the president is standing up to his base and he's going to take a lot of criticism. i've been critical of president obama for not doing what he's done in the last few days. he deserves credit. i was hypercritical of boehner. eric cantor, if the reports are accurate, he should stick to those 100 freshmen, work with the 100 freshmen. as much as he's critical of david brooks, if not critical, the language is right. the republican party would have taken this deal.

>> if you can cut $4 trillion in the next decade, and all that you're asked to do is close some holes that are unfair to working class and middle class, conservatives, liberals, moderates, i think -- there's a big deal, right? >> and if your fundamental message is to reduce spending and cut the deficit and you've got one thing -- >> we've got no choice. look what's happening, italy, now, you look right at them. portugal, it's happened in spain, it's happened all over. we've got no choice. >> the stage is set. >> coming up, joining late group as one of america's -- >> this is great. >> singing politicians. >> have you seen this? >> have i ever? i haven't seen this. >> wow. >> news you can't use. >> sorry. that's bad. [ female announcer ] now you can apply sunblock

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her man kane it turns out on top of everyone else can sing. >> holy cow. >> we just found out. surprised us with this already. in 1996, herman kane put out a gospel album called "sunday

morning," 12 tracks. listen and be inspired. ♪ this is the day that the lord has made ♪ ♪ this is the day the lord has made ♪ ♪ god's been so good to me loosened shackles and set me free ♪ ♪ precious lord you're the one ♪ ♪ that i build my life on ♪ ♪ you're my rock ♪ sunday morning tweet fellowship ♪ ♪ sunday morning the spirit it fills my heart ♪ >> that's your title track, "sunday morning," we should point out, we made it -- didn't actually -- >> yeah. >> this is crazy. >> he can sing. makes pizza. runs for president. he's good, he's very good. >> romantic. >> a lot better than say a

presidential candidate from last november. ♪ what do you get another day older and deeper in debt ♪ ♪ st. peter don't you call me because i can't go ♪ ♪ i owe my soul to the company store ♪ >> thank you. >> why? why? i just -- why? >> we're not going back to the -- >> you know what -- >> why do people do that? twice. >> the voice calmed the nation. >> it might be the number one story. >> her man cain. >> i don't know, take us out. still ahead, congressman, t. boone pickens, and robinson. >> show me. ♪ and you are my song ♪ boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh.

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trying the exelon patch. visit exelonpatch.com to learn more. the vast majority of democrats on capitol hill would prefer not to have to do anything on entitlements. would prefer not to have to do anything on the debt and deficit problems. but i'm sympathetic to their concerns. i try to explain, number one, if

you look at the numbers, then medicare, in particular, will run out of money and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up. >> oh, my goodness. look at the wonderful shot. >> welcome back to "morning joe," mike barnicle and harold ford jr. are with us. and joining us, pulitzer prize winning columnist, associate editor of "the washington post," eugene -- >> i see lilly is still with us. >> stop it. it's a bright dress and it's busy. >> you're a rainbow. >> i like it. >> you're dressed for success. >> thank you so much. >> i like that shirt. >> you like his shirt? >> yeah. tell him that he looks nice so you inspire him to dress nicer.

>> ledberry. are they two young guys? >> started a company, called ledberry. >> one is the -- >> i wouldn't have guessed it. >> if you can tell joe when he looks nice, it will inspire him to do it again. >> who's going to wear sweats. >> i want some of those shirts. >> the ties. >> fair enough. >> are we readily to talk about the nation's business? >> i would like to. it would be nice. >> her man cain singing. >> the voice that soothes the nation. >> this is what should be going on in washington. that's what you wanted? >> good segue, mike? >> deal. >> okay, eugene, i'm going to read from your piece because it will launch a good conversation. this is what you write in the washington, d. "washington post" --

gene, it would seem obvious. we salute the president for what he did yesterday. what happen in greece, to a lesser extent in great britain. what happened in portugal, spain, what happened this morning in italy. we've got to get a deal. i mean, this is not fun and games anymore. this is not about who wins next year's election. this is the real deal.

we're in trouble. >> well, we've got to get a deal because otherwise we'll get a default. if you sit down with tim geithner and secretary geithner and you listen to him explain what happens in august if we don't get a deal. and how you can't just pay the interest. in fact, the t-bills mature, $87 billion one week, about the same amount the next week. but the same amount the next week. you get to the end of the month, if people don't roll over the t-bills, you're $500 billion in the hole to start with in a month. so this is a very serious situation. what i tried to point out is democrats are grumbling and grousing. they don't want to deal with entitlements. they haven't closed the door. nobody closed the door. yes, they would work something out. i'm confident. the republicans have to get off the dime and vote to raise some revenue. they've got to do it. >> yeah.

that means that -- we've had a chance, harold ford, and we understand these chances come along so rarely to reform entitlement programs, to pay down the national debt $4 trillion. we've got an historic opportunity right now that as you and i both know rarely comes along in congress. >> you have to seize that moment. i think to put it in practical terms for consumers and those watching the show, if the deal is not struck, car payments go up, house payments go up. >> yeah. >> admitting interest rates goes up. people hears this stuff, they think, yeah, that's what wall street deals with. if you bought furniture, you pay on that monthly, it goes up. car payments go up. >> loans go up. >> if you own a business and someone is paying you monthly, not only is the consumer hurt, but the person who owns the business is hurt because they're not being paid either. it's a trickle effect.

i hope they understand that. which is why, to be repetitive here, i hope we can find a deal. >> so some highlights from the meetings yesterday. at one point, the republicans called tax increases bad for jobs. apparently the vice president exclaimed, come on, man! let's get real. >> come on, man! >> greatest of history in all time. >> he argued that the gop's resistance is not economical, it's ideological. and the president said eat your peas. listen -- >> i don't understand. >> i will not sign a 30-day or 6 60-day or 90-day extension. it's not an acceptable approach. it won't be easier, it will get harder. we might as well do it now, pull off the band aid, eat our peas. now's the time to do it. if not now, when. let's step up. let's do it. i'm prepared to do it.

i'm prepared to take on significant heat from my party to get something done. and i expect the other side should be willing to do the same thing. >> so, gene, again, personally, i love hearing the president talking about putting everything on the table. we need that. we were talking to him before about the time frame. i think a lot of us are concerned at rushing in to a deal if you're talking about something that's big as entitlement reform and major tax reform. can we do that in three weeks? >> something that we can do in three weeks is some framework targets, goals, caps, whatever. you can put the fundamentals of a deal in place in three weeks

and you have to have some time to work out the details. the details are important. but the one thing about the peas reference, it gave "the washington post" the chance to write one of the great headlines, which is "give peas" a chance. >> that's good. who thought of that. >> i disagree about they haven't had time to do it. there has been study and study about tax rates. we ought to lower it. the president is onboard. we ought to extend the payroll tax cut. ensure there's a rate of even lowering the rate like paul ryan wants to do so that more americans pay and wealthy americans pay a lower rate than a 39%. >> you think you can draft major entitlement reform and tax reform. >> the studies are done. >> this is not new. >> wow, we're going to cut medicare. >> which one do you take? paul ryan -- paul ryan's study

is not going to -- the plan is not going to be acceptable. >> as far back as john -- then simpson bulger. the number of plans out there. >> harold is right. there have been plenty of studies. we know, we have the legislation. that legislation would run necessarily hundreds of thousands of pages that have to be vetted. you don't get all of that in three weeks. that's practically impossible. but the outlines of a deal, the sort of narrative of the deal, will cut this by this and cut that by that and we'll do this and we'll do that. that you could do in three weeks because we kind of know where everything is. we know where the problems are and we know what needs to be done if we're going to tackle this big picture? >> hey, gene, it's willy.

given the premise that the democrats are more to -- that the republicans are more to blame than the democrats. nancy pelosi came out with a statement yesterday after the press conference saying we don't believe medicare, social security should be part of the solution here. should we budge or have they come as far as they're going to go. >> there's a difference between we don't believe that and absolutely not and we'll walk out. i think there are ways that are acceptable to the democratic caucus. for the differences that the democrats have with the whole approach. you c you can ameliorate a little and stand in the way, but i don't think you can't do something

about the debt ceiling. i don't see that. >> why are we paying these people? they sit in washington, they work three days a week. most americans work at least five days a week. harold and joe talking about all of the studies for years. the tax code, the entitlement reform. and it all comes down to the final hour. and you talk about the ramifications of august 2, people paying on their credit cards. some of the people are saying that they are scare tactics. some of them are the same people who wanted to go to war without paying for it. >> voted for a prescription drug bill without paying for it. why are we paying them? what do they do? >> again, the big danger right now, gene, is that we do something at the end. like i said before, whether it's

rushing to the iraq war or t.a.r.p. at the prepaid $700 million bill that allows banks to get bigger or it's a stimulus package where we find out, you know, we bought $1 billion of squirrel nut zipper cds, all of these things -- >> don't laugh at that. >> i'm not laughing at that. when you rush into these bills when you transform social security and medicare and medicaid and the tax cut, bad things happen. >> do we do it better when we do it a lot slower? that's one thing people should ask? i write columns, you wrote columns for a long, long time. how soon before your deadline did you finish your column. the deadline is everybody's

friend. it's just that we're running -- this is a hard deadline. and we've got to get something done. >> okay. can i get that name? >> i think it was close. the research looking at it. >> research looking at it? it's been a while. >> been a good run, though. >> there was a glimmer of hope yesterday. >> how is that? >> speaker boehner said it takes two to tango. >> yeah, he did. take a listen. >> i think the fundamental questions are this -- can you control government spending without fundamentally reforming entitlements? i think the answer is no. do you need to raise taxes to get control of spending? i think the answer is no. if you want to see an increase in government revenues, then let's grow the economy and create jobs, broaden the tax base and brace. >> simple. >> the only problem is he tries

to say no. he tried to tango. and on the intonya harding -- >> there will be no dancing here. >> a new poll in iowa. did you see that? >> bachmann? >> yeah, she's ahead in iowa. 25% of the likely iowa caucus with mitt romney only getting 21%, pawlenty in third place. cue the music. herman cain. >> it's a great country. >> if i'm mitt romney, i just had to -- i seriously had to go to south carolina. >> skip it. give it to michelle bachmann. what do you think? >> it's early. >> it's extraordinary. >> you got columns to write, don't you? >> if herman cain sings

"precious lord" a few more times, he's going in the double digits. that's clear. number two, you know, it's that -- that's really been for people. i tell you, still down there in the single digits. you can wait to catch fire, but at some point, you have to catch fire. and for bachmann to pull away from him in iowa, i think it can be a blow to that campaign. and michelle bachmann, her columnist, are you kidding? >> gene's going to have one of the auto pens. >> exactly. >> writing your columns. >> stick around, gene. >> push the button. go out there -- >> the bachmann -- >> >> up next, the democrats -- >> my golf handicap is going down. >> will democrats agree to a social security changes in the debt talks? we'll ask chris van hollen about the president's plan, next. coming up later in the show -- >> the stimulus accident.

>> oil tycoon boone pickens will be here to talk alternative energy. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? hottest day of the summer, texas tall way back to the east coast. it's going to be the hottest day. the heat index already this morning near 100 around louisville and feels like 98 when you walk out the door. it's 86 already in dc. now, the heat index is going to take effect the humidity and the temperature. this is the peak heat index for all of the cities late today. everyone is going to be in the hundreds. it appears some areas like memphis as warm as 15. as far as the rest of the country. minneapolis, you're cooling off. the west coast continues to be very cool, while the rest of the country is really, really hot. you're watching "morning joe." ♪

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we're in serious danger of defaulting on the china loans. >> 21 past the hour. >> the ranking member of the house budget committee, representative chris van hollen. good to have you back on the show, chris. >> nice to be with all of you. good to see you. >> the president talked about social security, medicare, medicaid, talked about spitalments. we, of course, have been saying that the republicans need to do what has to be done on closing tax loopholes and getting revenues in there. what do democrats need to do to reform? what does that mean? reforming entitlements? what is the president talking about? >> well, with respect to social security, the president made the point yesterday that social security is not the driver of

deficits. so what we've said is we're not going to balance the budget on the backs of social security beneficiarie beneficiaries. we're not going to give corporate jet owners additional tax breaks. >> but -- >> but what the president said is we're willing to look at ways to strengthen social security as a way of extending the solvency of security. we talked in the past of lifting the payroll tax cap. the president has other ideas. we're willing to give him the space to talk about various ideas if the focus is on strengthening social security. he says that's what he wants the focus to be on medicare. we talked about ways to strengthen the medicare system, building on some of the reforms of the affordable care act. we said medicare ought to be able to bargain for the prescription drug prices like the veterans administration can. that would mean tens of billions of dollars of additional funds for medicare. so the key, joe and others is,

the president and the republicans said, look, we're willing to talk about these things. and at the end of the day, the republicans said we're not going to close one loophole for the purposes of deficit reduction. >> listen to you, it sounds like what you're saying is you're not going to touch the benefits, you you'll raise taxes, you'll raise social security taxes but you're not going to do anybody 50 or younger you're not going to get social security. is that something democrats would consider having getting recipients of medicare at 68, 70 if you're in the 40s or 30s? >> we're looking to look at a number of things and we're going to give the president some space. as part of the bargain to reduce the deficit and put the economy on the long-term track. here's my issue with that. you, i, everybody around the table here make a living doing talking. we're not -- we're not lifting

heavy things. there are ways to say -- >> barnicle and i work on the docks so speak for yourself. >> yardwork. >> yeah. >> go ahead. your point? >> well, fair enough. so i don't think you should take away the choice of people retiring early. but if they make that choice, you can say they don't get the same benefits over a period of time. that's part of the design on social security. you can build on that. and that's a way of saving funds for social security. so we're willing to be part of this conversation. >> right. >> as you heard, our republican colleagues, they walked away from that. >> john boehner sounds like he was really -- >> i'm sorry. >> what's happened with john boehner and eric cantor. >> i don't want to get the speaker in trouble. but clearly he was willing to make some tough decisions, compromises which is what's going to be necessary in order to get the deficit and debt under control and get the economy moving again. he clearly had his legs cut out from under him by members of his

own caucus. we're going to have to leave those politics to their own caucus. but it's a huge missed opportunity. i hope they will reconsider. the president made clear that he's willing to meet them more than half way. this is a time for them to step up and demonstrate some leadership because, also you said, what's going to happen on august 2 is not a scare tactic. it's very real. >> reality. >> it will have a direct impact on americans. >> harold ford jr. is with us. harold? good to see you this morning. i interpreted his remarks yesterday slightly different than yours. i agree. social security and medicare. he sounded as if he was talking about more than just a conversation that he was willing to make some benefit changes and even some age changes. he didn't say specifically, but i interpret that and i think probably others, commentators have, that democrats and the president are willing to take some heat and do some big things courageous things and compromise. and republicans are not. but, you seem to be suggesting that maybe -- maybe that's not the case. that you're just willing to talk about it. what does that mean?

we win the independent vote, put the vote aside, we do the right thing for the country and political benefits. what do you mean by social security and medicare you're willing to have a conversation and perhaps not make benefit changes. >> harold, on medicare, for example, as you know, the afofrdable care act can change the consensus. we put a lot of ideas on the table to say that we need to change and modernize health care so that we focus on the value of care rather than the volume of care. because we need to modernize that program. and what we're also saying is we're willing to give the president the space to have this larger conversation. and what we've seen on the republican side and, look, gene robinson said in his column today -- they're not willing to move one inch on this. they're not going to take one penny for the purposes of deficit reduction. yourself, others on the panel, the bipartisan commission, said we need a balanced approach.

i don't agree with every detail, i agree with the overall framework in terms of approach. we've put lots of cuts on the table. you know that. and what we're saying is there has to be some revenue in the mix. it's not just our opinion, it's the opinion of every bipartisan group that's looked at this. >> gene, having said all that, isn't it fair to say also that the president and democrats who are not there yet, who are not as far along as the president in terms of what they're going to get, they could come to the table a lot earlier with this if they were dead serious about it, it's not all political as well. >> we could have talked about this five years ago. >> i mean, not two days ago. >> well, yeah. of course, the president kind of caved in and speaker boehner just kind of came up with the grand bargain. but, yes, your point is well taken that, sure, the democrats could have talked earlier about

entitlements. and, you know, could we have gotten anything done? i'm not sure. i have a question for the congressman, though. what is plan b? at this point, what -- what's plan b is plan a continues to run in to the brick wall of republican opposition? we've got to do something on august 2. >> all right. >> that's a good question. because, you know, what the republicans have said is let's go back to the biden talks. let's remember that the republicans walked out of the biden talks with the -- for the same reason. they worked -- they weren't prepared to do anything with respect to corporate tax breaks and the revenue side. so it's very hard to know what plan brk is. as the president said yesterday, we don't want to do something really short term. because we'll be right back in the same position six months from now as we are today. in fact, it will be harder because we would have already made some of the cuts. and that's why he's right when he says, doing a -- a big deficit reduction deal is

something that will really help the economy both in the short term and he has the payroll tax holiday idea, but also getting the deficit under control in the long term, in many ways, that could be easier than trying to do something small. because you face the same issues in our republican colleagues are just refusing to budge on this -- this point of id logical totalry jin r totalry jinlg -- total rigidity. it's good to see you. >> by the way, we just -- paul ryan was going to be here right after chris. he couldn't do it. republicans are having a meeting this morning. >> he'll be pack later this week. >> but we're going to get him later this week. >> chairman of the budget committee. paul ryan will be our guest later on morning joe. tomorrow, oh, look -- this is fun.

rupert murdoch and the scandal. >> wanted it for a long time. >> we'll talk to gene about that coming up next on "morning joe."

rupert murdoch is in the middle of another investigation. the possible victims include gordon brown and members of the royal family. a source close to brown says the sunday times are legally pursued as private financial and medical information. a news 4 spokesman said the company will investigate those allegations. amid "the new york times" reports that several high-ranking scotland yard officials that are part of the original investigation in to "news of the world" were themselves victims of hacking. the charges are raising new questions about the handling of the case and the officers will appear at a hearing today. that hearing comes as british police now say the news of the

wod did not cooperate with that initial probe. news corp. shares are paying a heavy price, tumbling nearly 13% of the last five trading sessions, shaving a total of $7 billion in market value from the company. >> gene robinson, you're over in london, bureau chief from '92 to '94. one thing if it's a tabloid like "news of the world," but now it's seemingly affected the "times" of london which used to be the gold standard for journalism in england. how big is this scandal? >> i don't know how big it is, joe. it's a lot bigger than it is now. when i was in london, all of the tape recordings of the royal family will come out. the taping that princess diana, still married in the time, in which he referred to. and the other one where charles

and camilla. >> go to the details of that one. >> i know. >> not going to go there. >> still makes me flinch. >> but i wonder, how do they get this stuff. i think we now know how they got some of this stuff. and this is all going to come out. and it's going to be, you know, the murdoch empire is one thing and it's a tragedy, i think, if this takes down the "times" as well. it maintained itself as a quality newspaper even after murdoch bought it. but let's look at some of the other tabloids too. what was "the daily mirror" doing or "daily mail" doing. they're not murdoch properties. they have juicy stories too. this will be investigate in the next weeks and months. >> wow. wow. it's sick to read some of these stories. it starts with the family -- >> the kids and -- >> gordon brown. >> and the murder victim.

and the parents believing the girl may be alive because -- >> i don't know how you recover from that as a company. again, i said earlier, is that a response? because at this point, they're probably trying to stop the debt. >> yeah. yeah. >> eugene robinson, thank you. coming up next, oil tycoon t. boone pickens joins the set. back with more "morning joe."

gone through thousands and

thousands of miles, and we're all working on the pickens plan. what we've come down to is we've done a darn good job of convincing, one, the american people that we have an energy plan for america and it makes sense. where all of us are in the game now. doesn't make any difference whether you're a democrat or republican. it doesn't have anything to do with it. it's us, america working together. >> the question is, can you convince washington? joining us now, founder and chairman of bp capital management, boone pickens. good to have you back on the show. you look great. >> you look great. you seem tired of fighting this fight, though. >> you tell me i look great because i'm getting so old. >> no, you look great. >> getting ready to call me a legend too. >> that's a guy that's 75 years old and still has a job. >> you're 83 and still fighting forward. how is the battle going? it makes so much sense. you're still running in roadblocks in washington.

>> we can't get it to a vote. i've got 185 co-sponsors. half have democrats, half republicans. obviously not a partisan issue. all you have to do is get it out there and it goes. i don't understand why they can only address one problem at a time. i have a half dozen things going every day. and i'm 83. >> give us an overview. >> talk about the pickens plan a lot. >> it seems like the pickens plan. >> give us an overview. and how much oil consumption does it cut back on over the next decade? >> okay. the biggest plan really addresses heavy duty trucks, 18 wheelers. and specifically, that's like hunting with a rifle, not a shotgun. so i just picked it out. and we have 250 million vehicles in america. i'm going to take 8 million heavy duty trucks, that's it. that will do it.

now if you go back the last eight years, you, me, us, have purchased from opec $1 trillion in oil in ten years. where did that money go? wouldn't you like to know? >> i'm afraid we know. >> if we go forward ten years, we have $100 oil. oil's changed. now it's $100 oil. we, in ten years, at $100 oil. just hold it. but the $100 oil is conservative. that you will have purchased $2.2 trillion. >> so if we consume the same amount of oil over the next decade that we did the past decade, which, of course, is too conservative. we're going to do more. even if that's all we consume, we're doubling how much money we're sending to opec countries. >> exactly. but one reason for that is you have had oil increases, but you had a price increase too.

take the 8 billion trucks, my bill, hr 230, half that and that would save the $2.2 trillion. >> what's the biggest wall? you present this plan to congress. is it politics? what is it? why can't you break through with more people? >> i can't find anybody to say to me, boone, that's a bad idea. i've never been an despot before. everybody i had in the past, someone will say, hey, i'll tell you what's wrong with that idea. coke industries has come out against me. they say it costs $1 billion a year for subsidy. so it's a five-year deal, and it sunsets out. so they say that subsidy -- >> why are they against it? >> because they want cheap natural gas. they're in the fertilizer business, that's one thing. they also import 61,000 barrels

of opec crude and they're one of the biggest recipients of the ethanol subsidy. they have a bunch of reasons. i feel like this, charles cote, i've known him forever and done a lot of business. he's focused on coke industries. i'm focused on america. i'm for a plan for us. to get us off of the opec oil. >> you're a conservative guy. you helped to fund some ads in 2004 for george w. bush. i would guess they didn't like you a whole lot out there. >> you know i was speaking to 3,000 people in marin county. >> that's san francisco area. >> they're the most liberal

county not in california, but maybe the world. it's pretty liberal. i was asked, you know, you funded some ads in the '04 campaign. these people know that. they know you're there for life. and never voted democrat and all. and how do you think they knew you here in marin county? i said, i think they see me as an old man, patriotic old man with a good idea. got a standing ovation. >> what goes through your mind when you read the papers and you've been at this for three years now. you're getting tired of it. what goes through your mind when you read stories of the august 2 deadline on the debt ceiling? one of your companies were told, hey, we've got to do something by a specific day, you know, four, five weeks down the way. and what goes through your mind

when you think of what they do or don't do in washington. >> i can't believe the rhetoric. here we are, you have to raise taxes to get the $4 trillion cuts. then within a matter of minutes, $4 trillion is off of the table, now it's $2 trillion. but it's people talking, not voting. it's just the kind of -- pardon me, crap, that i'm listening to. i -- my record is out there. i'm an action person. i don't fool around with decisions very long. once you get the facts, the facts are on the table, a good leader will make a decision. you don't throw it back for another study. i mean, that's over with. once you've got it and it's there, to throw it back is just weak. >> what's next for the pickens plan? what do you do next? >> i'm going to keep grinding

this year. i don't know. honestly, i'm getting a little frustrated with the whole thing. what i'm trying to do -- >> does the white house think it's a good idea. >> pardon me? >> does the president think it's a good idea? >> oh, yeah, i think so. he sent word it's a good idea. >> the president likes it. republicans in the house and the senate. >> all of the republicans kind of -- they don't like the -- it's got a tax credit for the heavy duty trust. it's for five years. look at what it's cost us. if we've got what i want, i told you, we can cut out $1 trillion in the next ten years. i mean, that's real money. now, what i want for them is i want $1 billion a year for five years just to get it started. okay, just in case they don't get it started, just in case they don't, it's going to happen. >> yeah. >> we are -- we're going to natural gas now for heavy duty trucks. no question about it. you have to -- the chesapeake announced that deal for $150

million to do the stations on the interstates and everything. it's going. so you save $2 a gallon. you're out there running an 18 wheeler and you're using 30,000 gallons a year and you save $2. $60,000 you can save in one year on fuel. and it's 30% cleaner. it's -- if honestly, if we do not do this, we're going to go down. if we don't get on our own resources in america, they're talking ant now exporting natural gas. can you imagine exporting clean, domestic for dirty opec? >> unbelievable. >> do us a favor. don't give up. >> oil independence. >> don't give up. don't give up. >> let's make a deal. >> all right. >> i'll hang in there this year. but we'll talk before the end of the year. >> okay. >> sounds great. >> we'll do it. >> i won't bail out. >> don't bail out. thank you very much. up next, we have the sweet sounds of herman cain.

>> oh, boy. >> presidential sounds of her man kane and gospel singer. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates.

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>> let it breathe a little bit. give you two guesses who that is singing. could be the next president of the united states. that gentleman right there mr. herman cain. he's about 9% in the iowa poll hanging in third place there. we know he's a successful pizza executive and we're learning over the last 24 hours or so, accomplished gospel singer. in 1996, he cut a gospel album called "sunday morning", 12 tracks, six of them posted online yesterday. let's listen and enjoy. ♪

♪ >> there's the title track. >> guy can make pizza and sing like that. can we vote now? >> if he doesn't get elected can we get him to sing at the inauguration. >> great pipes. >> no doubt. >> joins a long list of accomplished -- ♪ >> from rocky coast to -- ♪

>> that was dennis kucinich in case you couldn't make him out. >> hermancain ten times out of -- >> ashcroft a little creepy. >> we actually made up that graphic, if you're trying to find it, good luck. you can find it all over the internet. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a living, breathing intelligence that's helping people rethink how they live. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver

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so i continue to push congressional leaders for the largest possible deal. and there's going to be resistance. there is frankly resistance on my side to do anything on entitlements. there is strong resistance on the republican side to do anything on revenues but if each side takes a maximalist position and each side wants 100% of what its ideologue cal predispositions are, then we

can't get anything done. the things i am not consider are a 30-day or 60-day or 90-day or 180-day temporary stop gap resolution to this problem. we don't risk u.s. default on our obligations because we can't put politics aside. >> good tuesday morning to you. it is 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at manhattan. welcome to "morning joe." back with us on the set, we have mike barnicle and also harold ford jr. >> i love that quote, we have to talk about entitlements and taxes, et cetera, et cetera, i think that's great. i really do. the second part he says he's not going to make any extensions whatsoever and not going to let politics get in the way of the process. well, this process is of course shaped by and framed by

politics. and it is all about politics. but it seems like if the president is talking this way and if republicans can get enough time to do a deal on tax reform, so you're not raising the rates but you're expanding it out to make sure the warren buffetts of the world don't pay 14% and corporations pay zero, we could have a big deal here. >> they are still drawing lines in the sand that seem insurmountab insurmountable. with weeks to go, political leaders are heading back to the white house today for another meeting to try to reach a deal on the debt ceiling. officials familiar with the negotiations say eric cantor dominated yesterday's meeting. he laid out what was agreed upon in the deficit reduction talks led by vice president biden, specifically $2 trillion in cuts over the next decade. the figure includes around $1 trim in decembiscretionary spen

and 200 in saved interest on the debt. >> the military i guess comes in the discretionary spending? >> 200 billion. sources familiar with the talks add that after the presentation president obama said the two sides may reach a consensus but there are still issues to resolve. at one point during the meeting republicans called the tax increases bad for jobs. officials also say vice president biden exclammimed com on, man let's get real. >> i don't blame him. >> arguing the gop's resistance is not economic it's ideologue cal. >> is he not right? >> if you're a liberal democrat, then yeah, he's right. >> come on. he's definitely taking risks --

>> no doubt about it. >> good for the president. i'm serious. >> but with the talks still in limbo, he held the news conference before -- >> i'm going to be quiet. >> they are being difficult. >> who's that? >> the republicans are being difficult saying he's still pushing for the largest deal possible but the president made it clear it would veto any short term fix vowing we will get this down by august 2nd. >> i will not sign a 30-day or 60-day or 90-day extension. it's not an acceptable approach. it's not going to get easier, it's going to get harder. we might as well do it now, pull off the band-aid. eat our peas. now is the time to do it. if not now, when? let's step up. let's do it. i'm prepared to do it. i'm prepared to take on significant heat from my party

to get something done. and i expect the other side should be willing to do the same thing. >> i think the fundamental questions are this, can you control government spending without fundamentally reforming entitleme entitlement? i think the answer is no. do you need to raise taxes in order to get control of spending? i think the answer is no. if you want to see an increase in government revenues, let's grow the economy and create jobs, broaden the tax base and lower rates. >> okay. harold ford, what do you think? >> i think the president has shown the kind of leadership that you've been espousing on the show for some time. asking for compromise and saying i will stand in front of my own party and take tremendous heat. joe, you've been the champion for this if not months but -- >> years. >> particularly thinking of this

presidency. i think it is the height in so many ways of irresponsibility on part of my friends eric cantor and john boehner to not only step to the plate but to be willing to go before the caucus and make the case that this congress would be the only congress in the history of america's congresses to be able to go home and legitimately say we've cut medicare, social security and medicaid, we'll increased revenue to the federal government by raising -- by decreasing spending by $3 and raising taxes less than a dollar and cut $4 trillion from budget spending to not do that -- we know that. >> you said 3 to 1. >> that's what the republicans have said. >> you said three to one. this weekend which 3-1 ratio, if you're going to shut down the loopholes and you're going after the massive increases in entitlement programs and defense spending and war spending and it's a 3-1 ratio and you do that

by closing loopholes, man, that sounds like a great deal. what i saw this weekend. >> let me finish. >> let me say it. "the new york times" said it's not a 2-1 ratio and that's what worries me. when the president says we're going to get this done by august 2nd. i'm worried suddenly 3-1 becomes 1-1 and becomes gimmicks and tricks we had in the government shutdown. >> that's not where we are with the republicans. they are refusing to have a conversation about revenue increases or tax increases, not this year or next year. i thought the president, one of the most compelling moments yesterday, the only tax that we'll raise next year if we don't act is repealing the payroll tax that's been cut this year two points for every american. no taxes would go up on obama's plan until after 2012 and only those affected are just around

the table -- >> what's interesting, you have two different dynamics working here with the democrats, you actually have the leaders of the house, people like nancy pelosi saying we're not going to go there with entitlement programs, being more difficult. on the republican side, it's the rank and file, it's the new members who said we're not going to raise taxes if you send us to washington that are not doing the deal. john boehner right now, he's not able to do the deal that he wants to do. >> it appears within the last ten days speaker boehner has been put in a box by eric cantor. he is maneuvered the speaker from being a guy who looks as if he's amenable to working across the table with the president of the united states to a guy who yesterday appears, he's afraid of his base. this whole thing comes down to just semantics i think. it's ideology as well. you have republicans, the

democrats put medicare and social security on the table and the president has put those on the table. >> what does that mean on the specifics? again, i salute the president. i'm telling you as a republican, i'm thinking is he saying that and then gets the tax increases which democrats always want then we end up it's just a scam. >> that's where we get into the semantics of it, the tax increases. so part of the package is the bush tax cuts, you make them permanent for the middle class. >> for everybody but the top 1%. >> except for the top 1%. then the republicans are saying that's a tax hike. we're not going to go along. >> why do you -- why don't you get rid of all of the bush tax cuts for everybody? >> because we need the money. we need a revenue stream. we have to widen the revenue stream. i don't know what they are thinking about in washington. we need to widen the revenue stream. we're doing so much. we're fighting three wars -- >> no, i'm saying why not get rid of all of bush taxes. >> he's saying repeal the

taxes -- >> like peter or zag said. get rid of them for everybody. >> do you think that could get done? >> joe, your party would not support that. >> i'm just playing devil's advocate, mike says get rid for the top. if we need the revenue, get rid of it for everybody and you have nan say pelosi like a lot of democrats concerned about the moves on entitlement and medicare and social security. >> we talked about the republican problem not moving on taxes. here's the other side of the problem. pelosi saying in a statement, we continue to oppose benefit cuts in social security and medicare. these pillars of economic and health security should not be used as a biggybank to sub sid dies tax cuts from the wealthy. he was talking republicans but also talking specifically to progressives. you have to come to the middle too. that's why his line if not know when i thought was so salient, so many people thinking if the government can't work for us at

this moment, this moment of crisis, when do they do both things? >> i love the president said what he said, mika. i wish the president had said this in may. the question is what do we do now between today and -- what's today -- >> july 12th and august 2nd. >> he's winning. >> he's winning the chess game by saying this but if he said it earlier it would have felt more like it came from -- does that make sense? >> if he said it earlier -- >> it doesn't matter. he's saying it. >> but it does matter. you can't put together a deal this big. like, for instance if you're a democrat you come to me and say, if you close the loopholes and raise revenue, then we'll take care of entitlements. what does that mean? that right there is a month-long discussion. because the thing is, harold, washington, d.c., let me finish. washington, d.c. loves to spend. they are addicting to spending.

ronald reagan's budget's were $600 billion. and then you know in 1990 it was $1.2 trillion and then it became $2 trillion. now it's $4 trillion. by the end of this decade it will be $6 trillion a year. washington always spends but you've -- >> you've been writing about this for years. we all know where the money is. it's been stated throughout the debate. we know where the money is, the conversation has been under way. we know what has been to be done to make changes. you asked how can republicans trust obama that he won't raise taxes and come back and rescind reentitlements? the reason we know this because nancy pelosi and the progressives who i think are wrong don't believe we should make any cuts to the entitlement programs. >> getting back to the big point. >> that is the big point. he is there, the republicans are not. >> getting back to the big point, it's july the 12th, this

has to be done by august the 2nd. >> you and i know 22nd or 23rd of july to write it? >> that's the problem. the problem is that when you rush into wars like iraq, when you rush into bailouts like t.a.r.p. when you say here's a three-page piece of paper give me $700 billion and the economy collapses, you know what what happens, too big to fail gets bigger. it's like the government shutdown, they rush to a deal and suddenly a $38 billion cut, you find out two months later becomes a $7 billion cost to taxpayers. so we're here now and again, i salute the president. we're going to have to extend this past august 2nd if we're going to know what we're passing. remember when we heard that the stimulus package was the most important package ever to save the economy and yet nobody that came on the show ever read the bill?

>> no one read the bill and the frustration for people watching the show and out in the country, why does it come to a moment of crisis? why do these things sneak up on us? >> the president voted against it once. >> why can't we get things down and handle business the way people in the world handle business. >> neither side trusts the other at this stage. >> there have been study after study about medicare and medicaid unlike the stimulus, which was a new conversation at the beginning of his term, we've had decades of study of all of these entitlement programs. the reality is you have the biden plan and gang of six plan, there are a number of plans based on sound study. the question is are the republican freshman willing to give the leadership -- >> harold, you can't transform 70-year programs in three weeks. again, that -- i agree with you, we have got to reform social

security and medicare to sf it. you don't do it with a gun to your head with a clock ticking. again, i want to underline again, boy, i salute the democratic president and i say democratic, talked about entitlements and that's what we've been hoping he would do. i don't want to bury the lead here. i salute the president. >> do not go on twitter today. >> that said, we'll have to extend the time line if we're going to do this right. >> speaking of a gun to your head, i'm not in the suggestion business but i don't think it would be a bad idea if the president of the united states had cantor and boehner and pelosi invite the freshman republicans just elected last fall, the democratic members of the house who are reluctant to put medicare and social security on the table, invite them today to the white house where leroy petri is receiving the medal of honor because he had a gun to

his head in afghanistan. he was asked to do something for his country. let's ask these people in washington to do something for their country. just get together and get something done. >> coming up, a slew of new allegations in the british phone hacking scandal now involving even more government officials. best selling author ben mess rick joins us from his book. it involves sex and the moon. maybe your attention will be kept here. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. a lot of us can deal with the heat, it's when you have the humidity that people complain. today will be one of the most hottest humidest days out there. this is a race you don't want to win but right now louisville is already ahead. 100 is how it feels out there, that's in the shade. 91 in st. louis. 83 in new york and 87 in d.c. some of our big cities on the east coast will get into it. here's the big map.

these are my forecast heat indexes. at the peek of the afternoon, 115 in memphis, 110 widespread throughout the southern ohio valley and kentucky and tennessee valleys. east coast won't be exactly chilly. ral r raleigh 109. on the west coast, you're chilly when the rest of us are sweating it out. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ p.a. announcer ] announcing america's favorite cereal

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congratulations to derek jeter for getting his 3,000th hit. oh, my gosh, get this, the fan who caught the ball decided to give it back to jeter even though it was valued at $250,000. jeter was like from the bottom of my heart i want to say, you're an idiot. i mean, what is wrong with you? >> all right, that's the man right there, christian lopez, caught jeter's 3,000th home run. he gave it back to the team, back to jeter and now the "new york times" reporting in exchange for the free tickets he's getting he might get hit with a $14,000 tax bill. >> that's not right. >> come on. >> there's still debate whether it was a gift so he may not have to pay the taxes.

if he does, jeter will pay the taxes. >> he needs to pay it, absolutely. >> what does it say about us the guy who does the right thing tagged as a loser -- >> i think he's a great guy. >> for not cashing in on it. >> it's great what he did, but to say he should have gotten money for it. >> get a life. >> what's wrong with our culture? a guy like that does the right thing and gets bashes and other people who steal moon rocks get books written about them. >> where are the children going? >> where are the children going? >> we're excited about this guest, ben mesrick is out with a new book "sex on the moon." the amazing story. we're going to ask you about that in a second but we need to go back. he wrote "the accidental billionaire" which became the social network. your life has changed since ma movie came out. >> that was insane. when i first wrote it my mom said, no one will read anything

about facebook. then it just exploded and the movie kept getting bigger. >> that was the only time your mom was wrong? >> when i wrote the vegas book, she said, you want to write about vegas? >> that was the only two times your mom was wrong. >> social network was insane. you couldn't come up with the twins if you wanted to. >> "bringing down the house" was a great book. >> sex on the moon may be a movie too. my wife is the dirty mind behind it. the real story is he stole a 600-pound safe of moon rocks from nasa, he was on the way to the astronaut training program he spread the moon rocks on the bed and had sex with his wife. he spent time in jail. >> what was his name?

>> thad roberts, kicked out of the house for having premarital sex. he was a mormon, fundamentalist family. on his way to his dream, falls in love with a young girl and decides to impress her by stealing a 600-pound safe with a piece of moon from every landing. it was the most valuable thing because they can't be gotten again, they are illegal to own. the president gives them as gifts to foreign country. they tried to sell them to a guy he met on the internet. this is belgium gem dealer. >> shouldn't he just have given them back, put them back in the safe and take them back. >> fbi sting operation ends up in jail for seven and a half years. >> how did you hear about him? >> he called me -- he gets out of prison and my books and movies, he had seen in prison. through a mutual friend i get a

call, do you want to meet this kid. he wants to tell his story. i had never heard it before. nasa did a good job of covering it up because they were embarrassed. i fly out to utah and he's the more care harismaticcharismatic >> where's the girl? >> the girl did not ever speak to him again. >> come on. >> the guy got 7 1/2 years for you. >> all of the letters unopened. it's a sad story in a lot of ways. >> you steal the moon rocks and they she rejects it. >> you think the kid will get a little credit for that? >> how did he get into that safe? >> he was on the inside. he was in the nasa and he had to go through a sypher lock, one of those electronic locks that use

flur he is krent powder on the -- and they have a lot of security cameras. the two girls were his accomplices, his girlfriend and another 19-year-old girl. the three of them, you have to drive at five miles an hour to get off the campus. they are driving this safe full of moon rocks had nasa plates and tags and they made it. it's a crazy story. >> who was the nasa security -- >> i think now it would be harder to do but at the time -- >> where's the girl now? >> that's a good question. she didn't want to talk to me. she was very unhappy i was writing the book. i changed her name in the story. she's out there. she's a smart girl, went on with her life, she's a professor, biologist intern at the time and has gone on and done good things with her life. this was a moment. i'm in the courtroom -- >> it happens. >> the judge asks her, you only knew this kid for three weeks, why did you take part as well?

>> i'm still trying to figure that out. >> did she go to jail? >> he took the fall for the girls -- >> see. >> oh, my gosh. >> that's sweet too and she's not talking to him. >> did a bad thing. should have waited on a number of levels. >> he should have sold the rocks. >> did he have money in mind? >> he wasn't dead. he had no money, he wanted to sell it for $100,000. not near what it was worth but he wanted enough money to take her to africa. >> about her again? >> gosh, you know what -- his name is thad. how does he compare to zuckerberg? >> it's funny, most of the geeky guys i write about can't get girls and this was the first who was getting girls. but mark and i am -- mark is a genius created facebook, this kid is a genius and robbed nasa. there's the gray area between right and wrong and he went right through the gray area.

>> the twins think something wrong happened. >> they feel strongly mark stole from them -- >> what's up with him today? >> thad is out, he's off his probation and the good question is what's next. he wants to go to space. his dream was to be the first man on mars. obviously now he has to do it in the private sector. he was getting his ph.d. again after prison. can he control his dlugsal impulses? >> maybe he and richard branson need to get together. >> was there something just other than stealing moon rocks, deeply flawed about this guy's character, that would not allow him now that he's out of jail to be able to go study -- >> going back to my mom, someone should give this kid a hug. he does have this hole he needs to fill by having people like him. he needed to be james bond. he said when he did the crime the james bond theme was running through his head as he did it. he needed to see himself as this

movie. when the movie gets made, maybe that will fulfill that. >> i think he needs to -- >> the important question has to be asked here, did thad give you indication that sex on the moon was better than regular sex? >> he said it was uncomfortable. >> no feeling of weightlessness. >> a lot of people dreamed of having sex on the moon, he's the only person who did it. >> the movie is basically 75 minutes of the movie the letters stacked up in prison, three years worth of letters. >> her dad wouldn't let her talk to him again. which is understandable. it was hard. it's a love story. >> she's old enough now -- >> she's an adult, yeah. >> he's an interesting guy. for me the most fascinating story i've been involved with. i always wanted to write about nasa. when you think of nasa you think of the '60s, you don't picture nasa today and with the shuttle ending, nasa is a really cool place. >> you look at the pictures again of this kid, he's a great

looking guy. >> good looking guy. looks like a movie star. >> he was diving with the astro knots in the lunar lab, in the space shuttle simulator. nasa has the coolest toys in the world, mars roveres and things like that. for me it fulfilled what i wanted to do. >> the book is "sex on the moon". >> another great one. >> ben mezrich, good to have you on the show. >> tell your mom she's wrong both times but we love her. >> might want to send her flowers. >> i will. >> former prime minister gordon brown speaks out about he and his family were targeted in britain's phone hacking scandal next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive?

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welcome back to "morning joe. the bbc reports ruper murdoch has been asked to appear before a committee about the phone hacking allegations. there are new claims this morning that more journalists may be involved in the deepening scandal. among the alleged targets, the country's former prime minister

gordon brown. nbc's stephanie gosk is in london with details. >> reporter: scandal that started with just one of rupert murdoch's tabloids is spreading. now "the sun" and the sunday times are being accused of illegal and unethical reporting tactics. their target, former prime minister gordon brown. a former adviser to gordon brown says rebecca brooks, editor at the "the sun" who would also go on to be the editor of "news of the world." contacted the browns to say the son had cystic fib rose sis and was going to print the story. >> in tears, your son is not going to be broadcast across the media. sara and i incredibly upset about it, thinking about his long-term future and our family. >> at the time only a small group of doctors knew the

diagnosis and the browns themselves had only just been told. >> they didn't know how rebecca came across this information and it came to light it was obtained by what appears to be illegal methods. >> the financial details were also obtain illegally by the sun times. they sent a memo to the paper in january of 2000. someone from the sunday times or acting on its behalf has ma massacmass quer raided as mr. brown. the news organization that manages the papers says it is aware of the new allegations involving gordon brown. the company is asking for all relevant information so that they can conduct their own investigation. they did not comment on the latest allegations involving "the news of the world" and the royal family. the bbc reports that members of the royal family security team sold phone details to the paper and that charles and camilla's

cell phones are among those hacked by reporters. >> that's nbc's stephanie gosk reporting from london. news corp shares are paying a heavy price, down 13% from the last five trading sessions shaving a total of $7 billion in market value from the company. >> let's get a check on business before the bill with simon hobbes. let's stay on the story. it seems simon, every day it gets worse. >> yes, but i've lived in the u.k. for most of my life. let me give you context. gordon brown was in power for 13 years at the top of british politics and never mentioned it then. it is only now that murdoch is on the ropes, that the left wing of the british political establishment is putting the boot in because for years you saw -- did you see the picture in that report of him smiling with rebecca brooks? they needed murdoch, they needed

him to win elections and needed "the subject times" and "news of the world." he is furious at the end of the day murdoch didn't support him personally. brown is an angry, angry man. just bear in mind the broader context. murdoch no doubt, the allegations are very serious, but there's also a huge political game that is going on. left wing the opposition labor party in power under tony blair hates murdoch with a passion. he is the guy who helped break the trade movement, it was the most powerful they had one the labor union holds and they hated him for years and now they smell vengance. >> you sized up how ugly relationships on every level can be because i don't discount what you're saying, having said when the information about their son came out, i bet their scared to say something because it could have gotten worse and uglier. >> does sound like pay back

though, doesn't it? >> yes, but while he was the head of british politics, every other family had exactly the same thing happen to them and they didn't stop it then, did they? brown is not alleging that the cystic fibrosis came through anything illegal, he's clear in saying it was not illegal. they got the story. that was the culture in the u.k. that is what gordon brown presided over. that was his country. if at the end of the day the guy was in power during those things and the allegations are huge, did it for years and years, do you not think the british establishment knew that? why not only now do they come out? why is the -- is it going through for ages? >> i'll try and answer that question. you honestly sound passionate about this. i think a lot of people are afraid to say something and now piling on when they finally have the opportunity, not that that's right but it looks to me that's what's happening. >> he was the prime minister of the united kingdom. and you're telling me he's scared? that's a lack of leerdship.

>> i'm talking about everybody else piling on. >> simon, the other day, face it we were all in on this. >> they were. >> they all knew. >> you can't -- he cannot attempt to grab the high ground with mournful looks. i think it's really insipid and i think there's a broader context we should be aware of. >> let's move on from news corp to italy. my gosh, the situation getting rougher there. >> frankly the europeans are in danger of losing control of the situation we have in europe at the moment. they can't work out what to do with greece. they called another emergency e.u. leader summit, 27 heads of state are canceling everything to come together on friday. and the market meanwhile continues to attack italy, which is far bigger in economy than the rest of the pigs put together if you remember that unfortunate expression that we have. the situation there is very, very serious. >> and so you look at murkle,

the germans have to feel they are carrying europe on their shoulders. >> you are really pressing buttons today, aren't you? >> what is the point of european project, the history of the last 60 years of the european union, germgmy awas ashamed by by naziism and the holocaust. and within that, they were uniting the two sides of germany. they created the european union and wrapped themselves in the project and now again a world power. if with all of their wealth and all of that time there is a slight problem with the system that they created and they let greece in, then i think it's only fair that they pay a little bit towards the cost of that project, which is now come to be so powerful. >> is there anything else you would like to say before we go? >> it was not good in the canteen today. >> i want to you bring your gordon brown for prime minister

button tomorrow and wear it when you report. >> for sure i always wore one of those. >> i'm sure you did. >> simon hobbs, thanks very much. >> coming up next, developing overnight, karzai's political powerful half-brother gunned down in afghanistan. we'll tell you that story when we return. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you. with aveeno nourish plus moisturize.

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46 past the hour. a quick look at the news, afghan officials confirm that president hamid karzai's half-brother was shot and killed in his home in the southern province of kandahar this morning. ahmad wali karzai was the head of the local pri vin shal

council. he had become a symbol for corruption within the organization after a series of allegations, including he was on the cia payroll and involved in drug trafficking. karzai was killed by a member of his own security team. president karzai spoke at the news conference saying his brother's death reflects the suffering of all afghan people. the u.s. has condemned the killing. a taliban spokesperson said they hired the gunman and he was punished for all of his wrongdoings. leon panetta with no comments about the military role in the middle east saying the u.s. will have an enduring presence for many years. panetta was making remarks during his first visit to iraq as pentagon chief where he met with nuri al maliki yesterday. just one of several issues he's tackling during his trip.

here's chief pentagon correspondent traveling with the defense secretary. >> reporter: the new secretary of defense leon panetta was troubled by the landscape below. u.s. forces said to withdraw by the end of the year are caught up in a war. 15 americans killed in the past month by iraqi extremists armed with rockets and roadside bombs supply by iran. panetta told a gathering of soldiers the killing must end. >> my first responsibility as secretary of defense is to make damned sure we do everything necessary to protect you. >> reporter: panetta pressured iraq's top officials to send iraqi military forces to hunt down the attackers. panetta suggested if not, america combat force woz do the job. >> i can tell you i do have the authority and the responsibility to defend u.s. soldiers. >> reporter: this is panetta's

first overseas trip as secretary of defense of the on the flight over he surprised many when he declared al qaeda was on the ropes. >> we're within reach of strategically defeating al qaeda. >> reporter: in baghdad, panetta miss spoek when he appeared to suggest to the soldiers that the u.s. invaded iraq because of al qaeda. >> the reason you guys are here because on 9/11, the united states got attacked. >> reporter: but there's no evidence of al qaeda presence in iraq before the invasion. panetta explained later he was talking about al qaeda in iraq today. throughout this trip, panetta showed he's a different kind of defense secretary, bold and outspoken. >> damn it, makety decision. >> reporter: when talking about osama bin laden, brash. >> to get that son of a -- >> will there be more? >> i'm italian. what can i tell you? >> need a seven-second delay on him. mike barnicle, is it just me -- and i like leon panetta an awful lot and we know why we're in

iraq and afghanistan and what happened on 9/11, but is it just me or did you get tired when you heard the report that leon panetta said we're going to have an enduring presence in the middle east for a long time to come? that does not seem to be in our best long-term interest. >> you know it's the truth. you know five or ten or 15 years down the road there's going to be 25, 50,000 american troops on the ground in iraq. . we're still in germany, joe. >> that is not good for our well being. >> the chinese are using this decade and will use the next decade to make enduring economic partnerships and relationships while they are watching us slowly be zapped by one war after another. 15 americans killed in iraq, in

iraq. it continues in afghanistan while china, india, other economic rivals. >> we're rebuilding those countries when our airports are dated and roads are crumbling and bridges are in need of repair. you're in this country. >> just the conversation. >> china can build hundreds and hundreds of miles of high speed rail, we can't build a line from tampa to orlando? i'm telling you, our infrastructure is crumbling, our schools, our education system, k through 12 not improving the way it needs to improve. you want to talk about security. >> right. >> our battle is not going to deal with missiles and jets over the next century, it's keeping up with china. >> we'll talk about this much more tomorrow with former national security adviser dr. b brzezinski.

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welcome back to "morning joe." talk about what we learned today. >> herman cain has a sweet voice. >> while america was down, he lifted their spirits. >> i learned that we should pay attention later this morning as sergeant leroy petri will receive the medal of honor in a white house ceremony. >> what did you learn? >> i learned from many e-mailers yesterday there was an almost complete blackout of derek jeter's historic 3,000 hits. didn't mention it, showed some brawl from a second rate new england team. >> joe, what did you learn? >> i'm glad the president is talking about putting everything on the table and hope the republicans find a way to get us to $4 trillion